All sharshooter user voices in one

[dualswordmaster]

Hi. As an experienced PKO server player and having hundreds of hours of gameplay behind me for every class currently in existence, I would like to share my opinion on the Sharpshooter class. This class was originally created as a typical archer, the so-called glass cannon. DPS class that deals damage at a distance, but at the same time it pays for its damage with great vulnerability. Sharpshooter like everyone else has its pros and cons. However, this class feels broken at the moment. The current advantages, and this is an increased running speed, a larger radius for auto-attack, the ability to seal the enemy (prohibit him from using abilities) and reduce the running speed + reduce the chance to dodge a blow, do not feel sufficient for a competitive game (at all stages of the game) compared to other classes. The reason is not enough DPS, which cancels all bonuses, turning the glass cannon into glass without teeth. The game turns into a nightmare when all you have to do is run around (but fast) and barely deal any damage to most game classes but same time they mostly one shot you. Based on my personal experience, as well as the opinions of many players, I propose to fix this by:
1) Give Sharpshooters the opportunity to gem they gun or bow with UG strike. It will add extra 25 ( 20 acc at Port Royal) acc stat points wich equivalent ~250-350 more average max attack with same ASPD as we have before. 250-350 max attack is ~5-10% bonus to max attack with all possible boosts available in-game right now. It surely don't make SS more OP than any other class but at least make it fairer DPS-wise compare to other classes.
2) remake lv 70 armor boss stone to make it the middle option between current usable items for ss such as CA FRAME (super cheap) and BD ARMOR (super expensive). Small PR boost and acc bonus will be more than enough to make that lv 70 armor playable in between item.

3) Boost dmg from Cripple. 1,7->2,5 - This is due to the game rules, how pvp works in this game. Most of the time, you cannot freely attack the enemy with auto-attack and use abilities constantly taking steps forward and backward. Most sharpshooters use this skill as a slash (crusader skill) in-between times when you can use blessings potions and freely auto-attack few seconds.

Im ready to discuss and free to listen to other players opinions. But I can say before some one start discuss SS DPS 2-4x less than crusader. I don't believe current profs of sharpshooter must have cost of 2x DPS less than our best in game class crusader (who have most strong range skill in game ???) and be same DPS as champion who supposed to be tank and deal average dmg.

 

[dualswordmaster]

ill just mention ur dps matter because u mention dps tell me in flash bomb time +bless which char ss or crus will do highest dps considering fact that u have to closer gap between target. Target have 380(dodge which is reachable for ss/crus) and which char will have best chance to run back after it.

Your case already wrong since you count time to reach ur target (crusader come close to target in stealth) but let's say 1 second of bless to closer gap between target. After he FB + stun and slash his opponents and freely melee 3 more seconds with insane aspd and 330 hr since he have 1 lust 1 eye sword.

meanwhile, SS needs to use bless 1\2 of the screen till your enemy so he spends same 1 second of bless to closer gap between target. Than he use seal + cripple OR ds+frozen arrow and FB After it he has 1 second of free mele and 2,3 seconds of shitty melee cuz target move back and character do 1 step 1 shot 1 step 1 shot so in that case we do 1\2 of our dmg.

Let's say crusader will have 1 second to run back and ss will have 0,7 second to run back (cuz more fast movement speed)

for math I take Adirila crusader at tortuga and Marwan sharpshooter at tortuga stats.

As target, we take any other average crus\ss same lvl 300 def 40 pr
Crusader with 330 hr will have 50% to deliver damage vs 380 dodge enemy SS will have 100% change to deliver dmg.
Crusader have 500 aspd in peak vs SS 280 aspd or 330 aspd ( with bow ).
Shaprshooter have 2800 and 3150 dmg bow\gun
crusader have 2950 dmg

so crusader will do 15 hits and 50% he will miss so total he do 7 hits from that 7 hits 1 will be critical + he will do 1 slash and one more critical damage from stun skill. 6 hits + 4 hits ( 2x critical hit) + slash = 10 and 7,5x dmg from slash = 17,5 x 2950 = 51000 or 25357 ( if we count def + pr )

Sharpshooter with bow will do full cast of his skills witch is 6,5x of damage and 3 hits while enemy fbed + 4 hits while enemy running away. 1 of this 7 hits will be critical so ss will do 6 hits + 2 (critical hit) + full cast of skills (6,5x dmg) = 14,5 x 2800 = 40600 or 20000 ( if we count def + pr)

Sharpshoter with GUN will do seal + cripple 1 sec free melee it is 3 hits + 2,3 sec of crippled melee 3 hits + 1 critical so total ss with gun will do
1,5x hit from cripple 6 hits and 1 critical hit = 9,5 x 3150 = 29925 or 14782 ( if we count def + pr)

they both manage to run back cuz they had 1 whole sec to do it.

Even tho that case is best what SS can do and out of bless its 10x more harder to auto-attack your enemy.

Git gud.

 

[Agrocusto]

My case is 100% correct since we all remember this game isn't 1 vs 1 but msvm where u cant use stealth efficient in situation like that 1 seck to closer a gap is really low would say at least 1,5-2s while ss can just do 1(1seck) step and already in correct range i dun know how u counted it as 1s for crus and 1s for ss xD.
Most likely average maxxed crus without any extra pots like w8less etc would be dead meanwhile ss have more chance to survive and we both know that's truth.

 

[dualswordmaster]

My case is 100% correct since we all remember this game isn't 1 vs 1 but msvm where u cant use stealth efficient in situation like that 1 seck to closer a gap is really low would say at least 1,5-2s while ss can just do 1(1seck) step and already in correct range i dun know how u counted it as 1s for crus and 1s for ss xD.
Most likely average maxxed crus without any extra pots like w8less etc would be dead meanwhile ss have more chance to survive and we both know that's truth.

You don't know the game if you keep arguing like that so better don't continue. You ask me questions and I give u a fully correct answer with all possible numbers and yet you just repeat what you said before without any counterargument.
MVM is place where TS replaceable IF your cleric\sm play and DO they work. So you 100% can closer than SS as crusader in MVM.

 

[Agrocusto]

Yea if u focus champ then u are closer for sure. Since we both know this game has tons of bugs none as crusader wont come stealth to enemies cus u cant be 100% sure ur stealth works also since abyss is replaced by both side all the time none mele unit will come close without bless before. Ur math equations might be correct but ur assumptions are completely wrong.

 

[dualswordmaster]

Yea if u focus champ then u are closer for sure. Since we both know this game has tons of bugs none as crusader wont come stealth to enemies cus u cant be 100% sure ur stealth works also since abyss is replaced by both side all the time none mele unit will come close without bless before. Ur math equations might be correct but ur assumptions are completely wrong.

It works the same for ss u won't be close to the enemy as crus cuz crus stealth. SS needs 2x more distance to be the same safe but has only 20% more speed. in the end, we have the same time that we spend to "close the gap between enemy" but the crusader will stun his target and have free time to deliver DPS, and the SS target will run deep inside making SS lose range and keep step deeper inside front line. That's will make him be more close to the enemy than he was when he started his DPS delivery. It can lead to an even more hard escape than a crusader that's why we have the same 1 second to start DPS and LEAVE.

 

[sawwaftop]

This post will make SS feel strong <3 goodjob

Ps: This is tker

 

[Vagel]

Dont ignore Sharposhooters please. This update is necessary!

 

[Yata]

Hello everyone.
I just want to let you guys know, we heard you.
However, we don't think it's a good idea to modify any class in any form right now. This includes adding Gems to different equip, modifying skills and changing the attribute scale of any class. We know many of you won't understand, but we think it's for the best at this stage. This doesn't mean, that we won't review it in the future. As for now, we believe SSs are performing the way they are intended to perform, as excelent PVEs and important PVPs in guild fights.
Keep in mind, every class has its strong points and weak points.

About modifying framestones: It is in our To-Do list.

We wish you all a good day,

PKO Staff.

 

[xmarwan]

Hello everyone.
I just want to let you guys know, we heard you.
However, we don't think it's a good idea to modify any class in any form right now. This includes adding Gems to different equip, modifying skills and changing the attribute scale of any class. We know many of you won't understand, but we think it's for the best at this stage. This doesn't mean, that we won't review it in the future. As for now, we believe SSs are performing the way they are intended to perform, as excelent PVEs and important PVPs in guild fights.
Keep in mind, every class has its strong points and weak points.

About modifying framestones: It is in our To-Do list.

We wish you all a good day,

PKO Staff.

Hi, is there a counter argument for that? I mean you guys saying “it is good enough”, is like all the players that ask for modifications by saying “it is bad class”, no argument or why they think it is bad, no disrespect here but I don’t think staff has equal knowledge of how classes are to some players who engage with those classes daily.

 

[Yata]

Hi, is there a counter argument for that? I mean you guys saying “it is good enough”, is like all the players that ask for modifications by saying “it is bad class”, no argument or why they think it is bad, no disrespect here but I don’t think staff has equal knowledge of how classes are to some players who engage with those classes daily.

Like I said above, we do not think it's a good idea to modify any class right now, but in the future it might be possible.
We have plenty of insight of what is expected of a SS and what they are capable of. We also know what a modification of the class now would provoke, as you probably know, some of our staff members worked in other servers before and bring over 10 years of different servers/modification experiences. Modifying SS right now is not an option.
That's as much as I can say.

 

[Adadra]

The problem with SS is that almost all of its usefulness is locked behind dealing damage, but it simply doesn't have the proper stats to do its job reliably.
Champs and Cruzes get a lot of free stats due to very strong equipment and passive/active skills, which gives them a lot of freedom and makes them a lot less prone to being punished for making mistakes in PK.

The other classes don't scale as well (with the exception of Voy/SM and the new Death Armors which give them really good stats), but besides SS, the other 3 classes have a lot of usefulness despite not having the stats to be really tanky or deal a lot of damage.
SMs have amazing utility with RB skill/Abyss Mire and decent supportive abilities, Clerics are an invaluable asset for every PK (although they could use some love too, but that's besides the point here) and Voys are valuable for camping spawns in BD/Abba and decent in CA even without much funding.

SS falls a little flat because the only utility it has are its seals, which don't matter all that much in PK since
a) in regular PK, they get recovered almost instantly
b) in CA, they're still very squishy and die easily... might as well make an SM to do the same or a better job while being more tanky

So all they're left with is raw combat power, aka dealing damage. But besides those 5 seconds of being on bless (and it's not even 5 seconds because of the time needed to use bless and enter combat and the time needed to fall back), they simply don't have enough damage to keep up with the hit and run playstyle, nor do they have enough tankiness to deal reliable DPS.

Buffing either of those aspects (but preferably DPS) would keep SS more up to date and make them scale better while still fulfilling its "fantasy" of being a glass cannon, but it would at least be a cannon, not just a handgun for 5 seconds and a situational seal bot for 25.

ToP made a lot of mistakes throughout its history, with adding absurd gems and equipment, but they've done some good things too. One of the earliest things they've done was notice that SS isn't able to forge enough acc to make use of its high scaling, so with the addition of Azreal (+8 stat) gems, they allowed SS to forge them both into gloves and their weapons, allowing them to scale better. Now, I'm not saying that Azreal gems were an amazing addition, but this philosophy behind allowing SS to forge an acc gem in their weapon was crucial in not making them fall off in terms of damage later on. And I think the suggestion of allowing SS to forge UG striking in their weapon would be good. Because the real proper change to SS should be something they should work for. It shouldn't simply be "here's more stats" or "here's better equipment". They are already a cheap class, making them more expensive and giving them more potential and more things to work for and work with is a good way of balancing them. Because it's exactly what the class lacks - potential.

I do think they could use a slightly higher con -> hp scaling (not con -> def though) as well, but for now, any sort of update would make the class more viable and less frustrating to play or invest in.

 

[Yata]

Thanks for your suggestion and explanation.
For now we will keep our stance. Might be reviewed later on.

 

[Vagel]

The problem with SS is that almost all of its usefulness is locked behind dealing damage, but it simply doesn't have the proper stats to do its job reliably.
Champs and Cruzes get a lot of free stats due to very strong equipment and passive/active skills, which gives them a lot of freedom and makes them a lot less prone to being punished for making mistakes in PK.

The other classes don't scale as well (with the exception of Voy/SM and the new Death Armors which give them really good stats), but besides SS, the other 3 classes have a lot of usefulness despite not having the stats to be really tanky or deal a lot of damage.
SMs have amazing utility with RB skill/Abyss Mire and decent supportive abilities, Clerics are an invaluable asset for every PK (although they could use some love too, but that's besides the point here) and Voys are valuable for camping spawns in BD/Abba and decent in CA even without much funding.

SS falls a little flat because the only utility it has are its seals, which don't matter all that much in PK since
a) in regular PK, they get recovered almost instantly
b) in CA, they're still very squishy and die easily... might as well make an SM to do the same or a better job while being more tanky

So all they're left with is raw combat power, aka dealing damage. But besides those 5 seconds of being on bless (and it's not even 5 seconds because of the time needed to use bless and enter combat and the time needed to fall back), they simply don't have enough damage to keep up with the hit and run playstyle, nor do they have enough tankiness to deal reliable DPS.

Buffing either of those aspects (but preferably DPS) would keep SS more up to date and make them scale better while still fulfilling its "fantasy" of being a glass cannon, but it would at least be a cannon, not just a handgun for 5 seconds and a situational seal bot for 25.

ToP made a lot of mistakes throughout its history, with adding absurd gems and equipment, but they've done some good things too. One of the earliest things they've done was notice that SS isn't able to forge enough acc to make use of its high scaling, so with the addition of Azreal (+8 stat) gems, they allowed SS to forge them both into gloves and their weapons, allowing them to scale better. Now, I'm not saying that Azreal gems were an amazing addition, but this philosophy behind allowing SS to forge an acc gem in their weapon was crucial in not making them fall off in terms of damage later on. And I think the suggestion of allowing SS to forge UG striking in their weapon would be good. Because the real proper change to SS should be something they should work for. It shouldn't simply be "here's more stats" or "here's better equipment". They are already a cheap class, making them more expensive and giving them more potential and more things to work for and work with is a good way of balancing them. Because it's exactly what the class lacks - potential.

I do think they could use a slightly higher con -> hp scaling (not con -> def though) as well, but for now, any sort of update would make the class more viable and less frustrating to play or invest in.

Agree 100%. Plus here we dont have 125 skill that gives x2 max or The tankiness of ToP2 SS.Its a sad story here cuz we dont have anything to make us compete against others.Only 1 type of strike forgable in gloves which is a powerkill.No acc gem for weapon and we always fall behind crusaders due to lack of atspd.

 

[Adadra]

Agree 100%. Plus here we dont have 125 skill that gives x2 max or The tankiness of ToP2 SS.Its a sad story here cuz we dont have anything to make us compete against others.Only 1 type of strike forgable in gloves which is a powerkill.No acc gem for weapon and we always fall behind crusaders due to lack of atspd.

ToP 2 was a mess of a balance and it's not right to compare it to PKO. The levels, equipment, gems, swings, bracelets & other new accessories and new pots all made it a much different game in terms of balance compared to PKO. But yes, it is another indicator that SS is a class that scales poorly and needs some love along the way.

Thanks for your suggestion and explanation.
For now we will keep our stance. Might be reviewed later on.

I'm not even playing anymore, I simply came to give my opinion because it's a controversial subject. But it's sad to see that there's hardly any reasonable arguments posted by the staff. "excellent at PvE" is very relative and up to debate, while "important PVPs in guild fights" is pretty much a joke, given everything that's been said here. It's nothing new, but if you actually provided reasonable arguments, details, calculations(?) or any other evidence to support those claims, players would be more willing to accept the decision than by just saying "we think it's ok".

 

[ORREBHC76]

the update we dont only want but need to become competable again!

 

[Vagel]

Any updates on this? I mean strike should be forged in weapons to say the least

 

[Vulpy]

Here till SS get a proper fix!Bump

 

[rumseller99]

SS
dps=2nd
toughness = last
ms = fastest

SS is made to deliver messages

 

[MrAustin]

Not a SS here, so I can't comment. But the SS framestone is definitely TRASH.

 

[rumseller99]

SS needs a proper boost