Gem of Soul, Gem of Wind, Gem of Striking

[Radagast]

Original ToP CA Expert Chests drop only Colo and Rages. I think it would be wonderful idea to add Gem Of Soul, Gem of Wind and Gem of Striking with same droprate %, otherwise it seems super unfair for classes who needs those. @Zankza

 

[Hillarien]

XD i wonder about that buddy. When i asked for the fc chest to not being spawn in wall anymore, the anwser was that it is all part of old good memories.
Time to craft? =D
Imo don't change it for now. People wanted oldshcool server, exactly like ToP was. Many people overidealized original top, let them expirience bad and good parts.
Remember: it is never too late to make server easier, it won't break anything. However you are not allowed to make server any harder without wipe, otherwise it is just bullshit for new players.

I agree with your point ofc, but if the change will go through, i will defenitely going to use it as precedent for other changes, like the retarded stats on unseals for magic classes+SS.

 

[Radagast]

XD i wonder about that buddy. When i asked for the fc chest to not being spawn in wall anymore, the anwser was that it is all part of old good memories.
Time to craft? =D
Imo don't change it for now. People wanted oldshcool server, exactly like ToP was. Many people overidealized original top, let them expirience bad and good parts.
Remember: it is never too late to make server easier, it won't break anything. However you are not allowed to make server any harder without wipe, otherwise it is just bullshit for new players.

I agree with your point ofc, but if the change will go through, i will defenitely going to use it as precedent for other changes, like the retarded stats on unseals for magic classes+SS.

Well, SS unseal and magic stats are ofc ridiculous compared to cruz or champion They just make no sense. But you can get over it by just using CA frame.. You can't go around not even having chance of getting these gems compared to cruz,champ. Crafting? Dude, let's be serious now It would take like half a year for 1 GoSoul to be made. CA will bring like hundred rages into server by that time.. Doesn't seem fair at all. I understand that it's vanilla ToP with all it's lacks, but there ARE a few things which MUST be changed for interesting and fair gameplay for any class.

 

[Hillarien]

Well, SS unseal and magic stats are ofc ridiculous compared to cruz or champion They just make no sense. But you can get over it by just using CA frame.. You can't go around not even having chance of getting these gems compared to cruz,champ. Crafting? Dude, let's be serious now It would take like half a year for 1 GoSoul to be made. CA will bring like hundred rages into server by that time.. Doesn't seem fair at all. I understand that it's vanilla ToP with all it's lacks, but there ARE a few things which MUST be changed for interesting and fair gameplay for any class.

I agree with all of your points, should the server been mine, id do that right away. But it isn't, and i know some people want it to be as vanilla as it gets. Good for them i gues.
There is also OSS btw for those gems. And let's be fair, We were never asked how close to vanilla it should be. I belive, that most of people who wanted the complete vanilla did never fought on top or they did just mained crusader, or maybe they had a guild who babysited them.
Those who actually tried to play voyager did remember how annoying it was to die from single slash while being hybrid voy lol.
Too bad, let those people remember it once more so maybe there won't be any illusions about this one, once and for all. Should this server be a failure in the end, well, i just hope that people won't blame everything on mall then.

 

[Leba]

People wanted oldshcool server, exactly like ToP was. Many people overidealized original top, let them expirience bad and good parts.

I feel like this comment is indirect hate towards the people who kept moaning on the forums about how the game shouldn't be changed. I suppose I fall under that category, but the difference, for instance, between this change which would have a lot of positive influence but overall very little effect to the gameplay and some other changes which were suggested that would change the way the game feels, and in some cases, the way it's played is big.

A small change in the drop table to make things more fair for all classes and players is absolutely in order, and I'm personally all for this change.

like the retarded stats on unseals for magic classes+SS.

That much is true, but you've got chest eq and CA eq which are more than decent to say the least. Magic classes will be incredibly strong early on in the game. As someone said earlier (I believe it was you), voys will rule CA for at least half a year, which is probably true. As for other Magics, they'll have their own use, battle clerics will be great outside of CA, and very difficult to take down inside of CA, and SMs are always great, no matter the maze, level or equips. Now, buffing Unseals to the extent where they'll be comparable to the ones of cruz or champ is just overkill. This WOULD change the nature of the game, since unseals would become a lot more potent for those classes.

 

[Arcadios]

There is nothing to change because the real vanilla will stay on what it is before if u fix the fc chest over the wall you will not feel the frustration we felt before and the same thing the drops of ca chest its normal everything is on plan and theres nothing to change lets just play and have fun and feel the old good memories again

 

[Brother]

About the item mall, I believe Zankza will adjusting what items should be added and should be discarded and what prices should be raised and lowered from time to time, according to the server and player needs.

 

[Hillarien]

I feel like this comment is indirect hate towards the people who kept moaning on the forums about how the game shouldn't be changed. I suppose I fall under that category, but the difference, for instance, between this change which would have a lot of positive influence but overall very little effect to the gameplay and some other changes which were suggested that would change the way the game feels, and in some cases, the way it's played is big.

A small change in the drop table to make things more fair for all classes and players is absolutely in order, and I'm personally all for this change.

That much is true, but you've got chest eq and CA eq which are more than decent to say the least. Magic classes will be incredibly strong early on in the game. As someone said earlier (I believe it was you), voys will rule CA for at least half a year, which is probably true. As for other Magics, they'll have their own use, battle clerics will be great outside of CA, and very difficult to take down inside of CA, and SMs are always great, no matter the maze, level or equips. Now, buffing Unseals to the extent where they'll be comparable to the ones of cruz or champ is just overkill. This WOULD change the nature of the game, since unseals would become a lot more potent for those classes.

Hey, first of all emotion like "hate" does not exist for me in the context of PKO. I think it is more wise to let people step on the rake and learn the pain once and for all.

1)adding Gem of soul and gem of striking to expert CA chest is not a small change, it is a freaking game changing edit that completly change the way how fast classes grow. But let's just say it is your subjective opinion, for the both of us. Il just say that you will feel soon enough the difference how the game feel if you can farm gem of soul from chaos chests.

2)Magic classes incredibly strong early on. Do you realise that a huge chunk of that power suggests that they have Standart medi and magic? Possibly Intence magic as well ofc. Additionally, CA is not as important as DW, i mean the most power of voyager is to controll a certain zone, preferably zone with chest. Voy does not grow as strong from equipment, it gets tanky yes, and that's his main power. He is tanky and he deal damage and he stuns. Voy won't ever deal too much damage however, not if he stay con. SPR voy will do huge damage with IM/standart magic with his thunder bolt, sure. but he die so easially.
I just not sure that it is fair to say that it is overkill to make unseals usefull for them. I can say the same thing for cruasder, he can be content with EVA swords that actually same as unseal 45, damage/aspd wise. They also can use drakans, if they happen to get lvl 75 that is, otherwise wyrm swords with good stats are not so terrible in the end. What crusader and champion have, however, is EPIC EPIC EPIC EPIC unseal armor. It is incredibly powerfull, and does not make cruz healthy strong in correct way. Cruz at this 70-75ish level supposed to be a squishy assassin with a strong disable on long cooldown. It also happen to be true that they can go dodge build, perfect for pve, just the varriety you need for the class. However, how actually it is balanced and healthy that crusaders also happen to have 2nd best grow of HP and Defence from CON after champions AND have the best unseals in the game. There so much crusader lovers and i didn not heard on this forum at least once that crusader supposed to be squishier and does not able to tank things while also oneshoting squishy targets.
I am fine with that though, in the context of a real vanilla, we just don't touch a thing and we are good to go. But if you use your(i don't mean exactly you here, just a speech form) subjective opinion to change certain things, well prepear to meet critics everywhere then.
3)Ca equips: unlike unseals it is not possible to get for averge players for a long time. Well yeah, expect CA Claw on market soon enough though, hahaha.
Twice a day ca, and you need so much of those to equip your full guild. and then you sell it for epic price.
Not only that, but CA eq + cler = ?????? Not like it is that terrible but with no ca points it is far from great.

If you want to know my exact point: if you want to change something, change a lot then, to the point where it is truly fair for all classes. Otherwise just don't touch it and blame Moliyo =D

 

[Leba]

Hey, first of all emotion like "hate" does not exist for me in the context of PKO. I think it is more wise to let people step on the rake and learn the pain once and for all.

1)adding Gem of soul and gem of striking to expert CA chest is not a small change, it is a freaking game changing edit that completly change the way how fast classes grow. But let's just say it is your subjective opinion, for the both of us. Il just say that you will feel soon enough the difference how the game feel if you can farm gem of soul from chaos chests.

2)Magic classes incredibly strong early on. Do you realise that a huge chunk of that power suggests that they have Standart medi and magic? Possibly Intence magic as well ofc. Additionally, CA is not as important as DW, i mean the most power of voyager is to controll a certain zone, preferably zone with chest. Voy does not grow as strong from equipment, it gets tanky yes, and that's his main power. He is tanky and he deal damage and he stuns. Voy won't ever deal too much damage however, not if he stay con. SPR voy will do huge damage with IM/standart magic with his thunder bolt, sure. but he die so easially.
I just not sure that it is fair to say that it is overkill to make unseals usefull for them. I can say the same thing for cruasder, he can be content with EVA swords that actually same as unseal 45, damage/aspd wise. They also can use drakans, if they happen to get lvl 75 that is, otherwise wyrm swords with good stats are not so terrible in the end. What crusader and champion have, however, is EPIC EPIC EPIC EPIC unseal armor. It is incredibly powerfull, and does not make cruz healthy strong in correct way. Cruz at this 70-75ish level supposed to be a squishy assassin with a strong disable on long cooldown. It also happen to be true that they can go dodge build, perfect for pve, just the varriety you need for the class. However, how actually it is balanced and healthy that crusaders also happen to have 2nd best grow of HP and Defence from CON after champions AND have the best unseals in the game. There so much crusader lovers and i didn not heard on this forum at least once that crusader supposed to be squishier and does not able to tank things while also oneshoting squishy targets.
I am fine with that though, in the context of a real vanilla, we just don't touch a thing and we are good to go. But if you use your(i don't mean exactly you here, just a speech form) subjective opinion to change certain things, well prepear to meet critics everywhere then.
3)Ca equips: unlike unseals it is not possible to get for averge players for a long time. Well yeah, expect CA Claw on market soon enough though, hahaha.
Twice a day ca, and you need so much of those to equip your full guild. and then you sell it for epic price.
Not only that, but CA eq + cler = ?????? Not like it is that terrible but with no ca points it is far from great.

If you want to know my exact point: if you want to change something, change a lot then, to the point where it is truly fair for all classes. Otherwise just don't touch it and blame Moliyo =D

You do have some good points there, but the thing is, either you keep things as they are and hope all goes well, or you change everything completely. It's not just about changing "this and that". There's a whole lot of bullshit which follows along those changes, lots of indirect buffs and nerfs everywhere, until you're forced to change something else to compensate and etc. But truthfully, it's so easy to go in the wrong direction and just mess up everything.
If you played FoxLv, you know that it started off fairly well, not much was changed except for the IGSP system. But as they slowly started changing the game, adding new stuff, changing stuff, it soon became a clown fiesta, with just a lot of broken stuff, even though there was a point where the server truly lived up to its name as an oldschool, close-to-top server.

A similar thing could happen here tbh. One small change here, one small change there, compensation, and all of a sudden you may be left with a server that's broken and anything but fun. I would much rather leave things as they are, except for a few small changes (Although my previous statement "Either change a lot or don't change at all; that was aimed at bigger changes).

All of this here is on paper, so it may be better to wait until the game is launched and see how things go. If anything needs to be changed so much that it's ruining the gameplay, I'm sure a solution could be found. (And I hope that Zankza learned from his past mistakes in FoxLv to listen to the community and their opinions).

Well, back to the topic at hand, I don't see why CA Chests shouldn't drop all UGs, true, it would affect how fast certain classes grow, but the other alternatives to obtaining UGs are quite poor, and this would be a positive change. You did complain about how strong champs/crusaders are, well, the only UG drops from chests at the moment benefit them the most, so I don't really see the problem.

We would like an official opinion on this, @Zankza

 

[Zankza]

Well, back to the topic at hand, I don't see why CA Chests shouldn't drop all UGs, true, it would affect how fast certain classes grow, but the other alternatives to obtaining UGs are quite poor, and this would be a positive change. You did complain about how strong champs/crusaders are, well, the only UG drops from chests at the moment benefit them the most, so I don't really see the problem.

I think it has something to do with the fact CA drops only those popular gems due to the fact there is usually 50x more demand for those gems, and those gems are usually the most expensive gems, to help control the demand, a new supply was injected by supply. But where as others gems were just doing just fine so they didn't bother adding.

That's just my opinion of WTF-MOLI intentions.

 

[Leba]

I think it has something to do with the fact CA drops only those popular gems due to the fact there is usually 50x more demand for those gems, and those gems are usually the most expensive gems, to help control the demand, a new supply was injected by supply. But where as others gems were just doing just fine so they didn't bother adding.

That's just my opinion of WTF-MOLI intentions.

Well, considering the poor choice of other ways of obtaining the rest of the UGs, adding it is necessary if you ask me. I really don't see why not.

 

[Edd1993]

Magic classes will be OP in the first months even with clean sets, they don't need more boosts. Let things the way they are for start, don't change anything. After couple of months, when all the classes will be on more of an equal ground you can think about adding all the UGs to CA chests if needed.

 

[Leba]

Magic classes will be OP in the first months even with clean sets, they don't need more boosts. Let things the way they are for start, don't change anything. After couple of months, when all the classes will be on more of an equal ground you can think about adding all the UGs to CA chests if needed.

Sounds like a decent solution for now, although what worries me is that the other classes can grow to become way stronger than magics once they're on even erms. However, the server's launching in over a week and people are suggesting lots of crazy stuff which, as I said in an earlier post, may work on paper, but for now, it's probably best to leave it as-is.